Emergency council meeting notes

07-06-2025, 8:30-10:30 @ 585 Woodward
585 Collective Transition Meeting - Date: 07-06-2025 @ 585 Woodward
Agenda 
Goal
The goal of this collective meeting is to amend and then ratify the transition plan so that the collective as a whole can move forwards. After that, we will discuss putting the transition plan into practice.
Agenda
Agenda overview, facilitation, stack, goals (5 min)
Reading of documents (25 min)
Discussion, conversation, and amendments to transition proposal (1 hr)
Ratification (amendment) of proposal (5 min)
Naming (15 min as time remains)
<(‘o’<)
Sunday, July 6th 8:30pm at 585 Woodward
(rachel is taking notes)
PLEASE READ AND REVIEW THE LINKED DOCUMENTS IN ADVANCE
Goal
The goal of this collective meeting is to amend and then ratify the transition plan so that the collective as a whole can move forwards. After that, we will discuss putting the transition plan into practice.
 
Notes
Discussion, conversation, and amendments to transition proposal (1 hr)
Response: it’s not a vote, its an agreement
R: this is what we are willing to compromise on as lease holders, the idea is to move forward so we can be operational again
If it’s not a proposal
R: the proposal is what we are giving to the co directors to show what our collective intention was moving forward > based on 6-7 meetings
R: the amendments are not substantial changes to anything the proposals says, they are things we are mentioning as requirements for leaseholders to feel a little more comfortable (doesn’t feel “comfortable” as it stands)
R: reading now and responding may not be possible
R: everyone will be involved > it’s not “ratified” per se, bc larger community hasn't seen it > if people have strong amendments to amendments document, it can still be changed before it’s ratified
So if we can vote on it in 45 mins > i don’t think anyone will leave this meeting happy
If we do not move forward we will not meet financial goals for rent
Q: “it sounds like there is some space for offering concerns or alterations? But liability holders these are your terms for moving forward > and the urgency for tonight is because it’s been taking too long, and if we use two more days, not possible
R: “two more days tends to tumble into weeks”
Resp: what i had in mind for this, is i’m a little confused about stack thing – the idea is that this is merely an articulation of liability concerns we’ve already laid out
We do not have ability to dissolve working group bc annoyed or whatever, but if there are things that come up that make the space unworkable, if people are defacing property, putting on risk-heavy events, disregarding MOU, that can effectively mean individual members > or a problem that can become endemic to a whole group > if there is a group that proves itself to be that much of a problem, legal concern, they have to leave
R: the first document is SIGNED and passed. You will not be seeing them.
Q: “august 1 deadlines” > how do we know ?
R: it’s in the second and third documents
R: for anyone not a leaseholder, the main thing is cease using “woodbine”
R: anything that has a deadline attached i’m happy to share . anything that pertains to anyone here, we can duplicate and share
Q: asking for info shared with spokes council and admin groups
R: fair enough .. these deadlines are somewhat flexible because contingent upon finding fiscal sponsors
R: deadlines may change but happy to give those deadlines
1. We will not be able to define “3 tasks”
2. Anything that is unilateral, i don't have issue if it's part of lease holder, but i want it to be inclusive > i don’t want to hear about it later, through the grape vine > COMMUNICATION
R: SURE > yes the coordinators chat for those questions and answers, esp when pressed to make sure a unilateral decision
R: every other action goes through conflict support first
R: unfortunately it’s the opposite: i think it’ll be nearly impossible to take away access related to anything related to replicate the space
R: honor system thing? Spreadsheet thing? Extractive relationships to the space? But people are already mad at me
Q: what about dues-paying people?
R; either dues paying or task-fulfilling > either or or , generous and open-ended
R: as far as i’m aware, personal harm is PRoactive, don't know of any situations
R: other liability issues: we are all in a room full of cell phones so not going to say all those things> common sense, some of them relate to harm that could happen in woodshop, machinery, Trump era affiliations, all sorts of things > I can't anticipate everything that would happen
So coordinators chat: when these things come up, why such a decision was made 
DO NOT GET ARRESTED IN THE SPACE => IMMEDIATE LEASE TERMINATION
R: assuming risk in what sense? On your own behalf is different
Q: another red wave swept away by CIA > are we just gonna stop associating with any group that is currently targeted? R: NO
3 minute limit total w 1 min warning
“We have all the people that need to chat here” for friendly amendments
Q: are we voting on something tonight? (amendments)
Q: that is clearer now; i think naming this as a proposal is misleading bc it’s an agreement we don’t have an option to discuss; first document is agreement between leaseholders and co directors; second document is collective document; FINAL document is “proposal” > this is misleading language as an offer with room to discuss and make changes > doesn’t feel prepared for agreement 
Agenda > 5 minutes for ratification: i assumed meant voting but apparently not the case?? Question: what is the PLAN? 
Q; which project is being taken is highly contentious: 
Q; the ability to dissolve working groups seems to be in admin,  think it would be better in the hands of the spokescouncil
Q: i am curious: first document not being online > is there any sort of hard copy available to spokes council or coordinators? How do we keep track of relevant timelines ? 
Q: clarification: the amendments offered by leaseholders, i take it to heart, they are in order “to feel comfortable”: but they are not written in stone > this is always changeable in the future
Q: theres’ a number of mentions of unilateral actions:
Q: “so wrt access” 1. Who or how are ppl held accountable for these 3 tasks? There's nobody here to vouch that i did xyz tasks? 2. I paid for access > does that affect task requirement? 3. I would imagine there are certain limits to what people can do > tasks that are highly specialized > it feels general and vague and doesn’t show how we can hold people accountable > access revoked when their contributions aren’t being recognized
Q: lots of legal indemnification mentions in first document: what are some examples of legal risk in the past? General idea of legal risk: what are legal risks and what should we try to avoid? Mentions of threats of personal harm? Is that something we need to worry about?
Q: time for amendment: the idea that in order to manage this membership issue, we have a membership committee> there is an admin council empowered to manage thing on behalf of entire members > manges codes, manages that people are doing what they say that they’re doing > keeps labor off of lease holders > 
R: could that be part of the next spokescouncil meeting?
R: SURE
R: i think this is something that is hard for me to answer on the spot
R: my understanding of membership is de facto: if you are involved in a working group: i don’t think there should be reasons to remove  membership unless they are continually doing actions that place us in legal liability, and managing membership, i don’t know what that means if we are doing honor code type system? It seems unmanageable with so many people? Overly bureaucratic? Very messy? So i’m open to maybe tabling that amendment in the interest of ratifying, and returning to what membership looks like
Q: in terms of “tabling” there is a future conversation where we will be having a collective conversation?
Q: spokes council creatse policy, admin implements with veto power if it involves liability and threat than the whole
Q: FIRST I WANT To acknowledge hard work that went into this and emotional time for a lot of people and the space; been involved since the beginning, “wondering about gym collective we have a policy that’s similar in terms of reproductive work for space – would the guideline around ppl wanting to do “3 tasks” – would those qualify? What is the overlap of task responsibility between working groups and space as whole?
R: these emails will go out as soon as we “are operational” hopeful next days > describing what these spaces are, and option to donate to one or both
Agreed to 3 contacts
R: i personally would like to see it extend beyond; these tasks are not as arduous as they seem: taking out garbage one night .. . since this is an honor system i wouldn't’ worry yourself too much
Q: i saw that “585 space” is going to be contacting donors – is WB going to make it clear that it’s no longer associated with all groups staying at 585> 
Q: mentioned 6 months later meeting about whether spokes and admin councils are working out? What are the format and invites of the meeting? Would it be a format different than a regular spokes council meeting
R: i think we don’t really know – something we wrote during meetings; we needed to push through a structure w/ accountability to leaseholders, and keep the space going, and emphasise integration with collective body > we think it has legs, but want to make space for it needing lots of changes > 6 month review will be time for feedback and working it out > we are committed to reviewing it in 6 months ,and on the 
Q: for people not part of spokes, they would want to be at that meeting
R: i predict it will be a lot like this meeting > review the explainer document for spokescouncil and meetings and harm reduction
Q: id’ like to understand how and why events have played out the way they have; i haven’t been at any meeting, summer time , a lot of people not 
R: SPOKESCOUNCIL WEBSITE wiki: please then share them to all the working groups
R: I’ve been frustrated at some of the spokescouncil meetings, bc i’ve been part of this process for a very long time > i do feel like it is almost owed to people a kind of anodyne a somewhat description of events of how things ended, i think that could be a goal
R: sure but let’s not name names
R: a lot of people have disparate feelings and views
Q: i would like to make space and time for this discussion in the future, especially with donors? 
R: THere are lots of one on one conversations we can have; first both spaces it is suicidal to donors
Q: doesn't want one-on-one
R: that is going to be rough; idk if you want to do that
R: delivering news of the split was at the big meeting > how often are we going to repeat this story
R: are there any amendment that kind of details note-taking at these meetings > and how will these notes be posted? There are notes posted in groups? Is there a drive with all these ???
Q: useful for everyone to describe liabilities in insurance documents? \
R: Would you be willing to read 145 pages ? Would you be willing to read a 145 page document?
R: the crux of issues will be in MOU liability document
Q: Jumping back: to this model of this way we are moving forward is proposing a culture of accountability, where we can secure our access to the space through different activities > things could be fulfilled based on working group use and needs > an ideal to aspire to using gym model where we sign up on a google sheet and we self document; this is a very messy and complicated thing that we need to achieve without blowing our heads up about immediate thing in how we interact w space > even non-key people need to follow through with use of the space > 
R: i’m open to formalizing this
R: Formalization is not going to come in the immediate term, not a hammer over heads, but we also have to be willing to hold the hammer for most gentle needs of the space
Q: instead of like “who’s showing up and taking names” > mention of “End Of Week cleaning” and trash days > where everyone can see it >
Can we highlight them
Can we make this a proposal for the next spokescouncil meeting?
R: YES
 Projector question: the differences in where they are and access, and I 
R: This is a little complicated
R: the opening of this space
R: did matt buy it directly
Q: i wanted to share my unique perspective of this, bc just came back from year long mental health from WB, before which i was doing a lot things w/ a lot of people ; part of coordinator and even co director, but then things happen, and now i see myself coming back from coma? What the fuck is happening to the whole thing? I am hopeful for this new future, i am a little bit sad that we kind of collectively failed as WB project in this space; my concern for the new structure is the SAME as for old structure: COMMUNICATION – i want people to be able to be encouraged to have agency while we have harmony and don’t step on each others toes; community building is hard task, we don’t have blueprint, give us some slack and grace as we all try to keep going > worried  about not giving enough AGENCy, esp to new people: where should i go what should i do? 
R: two people reach outed to me as professional conflict resolvers
R: ppl from within 585 can be involved
Q: “conflict resolution training” > somebody from outside coming into to prevent certain groups from having power over other groups
Q: a lot of sadness, transition pains, i encourage everyone to look at spokescouncil explainer and proposal document > THere was a lot of effort to try to overcome the pain points from before > it’s there and people are thinking about it and have been
Q: as far as conflict resolution: formalizing stuff, a lot of it can be done in the spokescouncil > >esp with CLEANING > for conflict resolution, i love the idea of outside person coming esp when things are really big, who don’t have a particular bias; for transparency, i would be point person of conflict resolution, but i was also going to reach out to eternal person to get trained, and to be an ambient vibe check for people to bring up concerns; with liability concerns and space use > talk to the person first, remediation first, and then safe space where people can put conflict concerns forward > things are maybe emerging into bigger conflict, and people can discuss, to try to avoid personal bias and proactively reach out to someone outside the space
R: q about liability and conflict support: “e.g. some event proposal’ - we can’t do that . not really a conflict support thing. As for how conflict support operates, we don’t have a clear idea of that, and figure out in spokes council moving forward
TIME IS UP: 
R: in terms of agency, there are a lot of people that are more silence, not represented here, doing a lot of invisible work, not speaking up in spokes council 
R: we haven’t actually had a spokescounilc meeting yet
R: one of the emphasis is visible-izing labor that isn’t always visible
R: for example, folks who clean up after hours > some formalized process
R: that is the goal
Q: some questions about MOU from earlier, i was one of the signatures, i think it’s fair that people want to see it; i think that we could share the parts of it that are relevant > i will follow up on that: i want to say something POSITIVE, WE got a really good opportunity here with the two-wheel model, of organizing the space from the bottom up, this is the goal of the spokes council, > working groups having meetings and bringing proposals to spokescouncil meetings and making sure that spokescouncil will have a lot of say in everything that is going on > good idea to table some of that nitty gritty for later meeting
Q: at one point you mentioned estimated loss of $2k income > where did that figure come from? 
We are also going to be able to democratize fundraising
Lots of energy and excitement over new model a
Important to focus on being able to bring in new money to support the space and have more transparency ! 
Please come to me (Dora) if you have any deep and dirty question for the spreadsheet > highly encourage people to contribute if you can
R: we are going to assume that we are losing some coworkers > ones who are not super active but still signed up
With friends and patreon  bring in almos $4k–we estimate to lose half
Honestly i think it will be $3k loss
Memorial fund also moving to WB
R: in that document, there’s an overview, but i put together a spreadsheet for anyone that wants the weeds and dirty details of it all, talk to Dora > in that document i didn’t include $1.5k in so doesn't have to be included in OUT
Q: Dues model: probably for spokescouncil : can we do an optional dues model? Like i think some people can contribute small models
R: that’s how the new patreon and withfriends will work, with tiers
FAcilitator: great operational question not yet in proposal > we need to agree  that we are moving forward with this ??? can we do this in a week?
An action item for US is what is part of next spokescounicl meeting and when is it?? 
I don’t think anyone wants to stay till 12am.
POINT OF PROCESS: Is this now a vote??? Do we need to vote?
“I feel like poor record keeping” 
“I;ve read it” - the wiki doc reading through the same notes that i read when i was abroad in finland, without getting a sense of the issues that lead to this split
R: “coordinators model > Where people are informally invited into a chat based on their commitment to space > co director space and chat and model fell apart from it not working” that’s the shortest answer I can give
R: That is NOT what we are talking about at this meeting
R: please stop thinking about this as “split” > similar programming and friendships > R: i don’t understand getting into personal drama for ratifying
Q: i want these changes to respond more to history directly in each document?
R: do you have an amendment for your concern ? > No
DOES ANYONE NOT WANT TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS? OTHER THAN ME (JOHNNY)
“I FEEL like i have a lot of questions that haven’t been answered”
I AM SECONDING CONCERNS FOR BETTER COMMUNICATION/RECORD KEEPING>
VIBE CHECK: do people need a day or two to process?
R: i think that is AN accurate response/account
R: i am fine with that happening but i want HARD DATE for these to actually form and happen
R: probably not next week?
R: probably no vote tonight? So we can all vote next sunday
R: We need to start getting money; we have been rejected twice now > we have someone this week we think we CANNOT HOLD UP MUCH LONGER
R: “my comment is that not everybody is here tonight, not everyone reads everything > tell your groups! Spokescounicl forming soon, get ready, read documents”
R: “this is not the end all be all - -if shit not ideal, not holding up, that is going to be how we get through the next few months; i don't want us to get stuck in the weeds trying to get into the clearing
R: ‘everything is subject to revision” spokescouncil is place for the revisions > so much could happen: everything could fall apart, there’s no guarantees > this is us just broadly saying we agree with the general direction moving forward> we need to start getting FINANCES
Q: SOME OF THE THINGS IN THESE DOCUMENTS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO make finances and could warrant more consideration
R: i said i would table that
R: thanks i like that
Proposal: can i propose that we ratify this agreement on the contingencies that there will be room to amend inf future spokescouncil meetings
R: YES.
VIbes: give people a day to think
I’ve been largely on the outside, this feels very plausible 98% of the time; 
The purpose of the meeting is that we are formally on the lease, we need safeguards, but otherwise we are are somewhat ready (amendments document just needs some space to breathe)
PROPOSAL: until spokescouncil is elected and has its own meetings: can we continue to have meetings every sunday after diner to do these kinds of meetings
Ratification (amendment) of proposal (5 min)
Naming (15 min as time remains)
R: not all obvious about which are joke names! Should not make unilateral decisions to remove names some people think are jokes
Main concern is to open bank account ? even more pressing: we can’t create ANY social media, fundraising, public-facing ACCOUNTS without a name> you can choose whichever legal name that doesn’t need to change .>>> SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS > how do we get donors without a name
Narrow down to 10-15: we are just going to choose a name for our fiscal sponsors NOW > V i have a timeline for myself
Q: suggestion/requestion: to all parties, that it matters to, the naming document 70% are all jokes, please take more seriously
END
<(‘o’<)
Links
Proposal for Collective Stewardship of 585 Space
CLARIFICATIONS AND EXPANSIONS TO 585 SPACE TRANSITION PROPOSAL
 

06-22-2025 "Leadership and Accountability" Breakout Group Meeting
Spokescouncil Meeting - Date: 06-22-2025
6.22.25 Leadership & Accountability Meeting
AGENDA:
1. Names & cute weekend
Johnny update
Leadership structure : integration of spokes council with “leaders” (Point People) and how they related to one another
We need point people for LL
But also spokes people need real power
Lease Stuff — power dynamics & pain points
Johnny In-Person & more lease stuff 
Pitfalls: RENTALS and liabilities 
Fiscal Sponsorship
When we step out of this meeting what do we want: 
How general spokes relate to steering spoke?
Gets us through emergency period > without gaining long term weird power
Like a sunset clause into it > 6 months later, the proposal structure document of structure must be edited
Would General Assembly style replace spokes council after a while of building trust and moving again?
Tomorrow: 
Break into 2-3 groups to draft a proposal (using “Katelyn’s” document as a template)
Go through spokes proposal decision making process
Friendly amendments
Discussion questions etc 
Synthesis
OR ppl self-select into a “proposal committee”
Page wants to know what the steering element is of the structure “spokes council”
Concerns about certain material things in the space that need to happen : RENT, repairs, rentals, programming, communications
Is the spokescouncil ready to take on all those tasks?
So idea is to have SPECiFIC POINT PEOPLE (TITLE) so that they can commit to keeping up that work so that it doesn’t fall through the cracks to keep the reproduction of space moving forward
Meanwhile spokes council needs to have real power
>> How to integrate those TWO important aspects, during nascent transitional phase
UPDATE: Briar: “Admin Collective” > steps away from any language we’ve used in the past, highlights “collective” nature; highlights un-sexy necessity of important admin work, without being called “leader” or anything like that 
- Brooklyn “Leader-ful” rather than “Leader-less” > distinct from being “in charge” without making decision > all this shit needs to be done, anyone can do it, but you gotta commit to doing it
- Being on ‘directorship” > there would be areal split on decisions > ie calendar access > taking away things without real reasons only breeds resentment > invisible power defaulting to what Matt wanted because we weren’t able to come to an agreement >> so if half of directorship disagrees >>> what DO WE DO? 
= a void in That process > exhaustion
= sometimes you simply need to make a decision
“Admin collective” > you have specific tasks, 9 people doing 9 specific things, (Odd number so no ties) > feedback, digesting decisions > spokes council to have feedback “tickets” to give anonymous feedback
Spacewide deacon made : voted on spokes council > ie keeping office hours > “how’s this going” about each decision that is made? = report backs for any kind of proposal at each meeting other explain how it’s going, other feedback on how it’s actually going
——————————————————————————————————
Meeting with Dino:
Everything hit in message from Vanessa
Tried to gently propose everything to LL without seeming like we are in crisis 
Johnny’s dad is sick > might have to move > feeling out how llc would work (no:
LL wants to keep the status quo as much as possible
Matt self indemnify is ok
Add Vanessa is ok 
Longer term: would be open to reassignment, but it’s just so early in the 10 year lease
LL Don’t want instability
Indeterminate amount of time: lease arrangement: Matt indemnify, Add Vanessa
Concerns about basement and kitchen
Insurance things that might change, nothing devastating but could change
>> agenda item for Monday: BASEMENT CLEANUP!! Due in 6 weeks
Shelving too close to pipes easy fix issue
The hole front area where there aren’t 3d printers etc but just “stuff’ everywhere is fire hazard, things we ‘ve talked about getting rid of 
Collective cleaning day
LL will be redoing steps anyway
>> we can make a group to figure it out, not time on Monday meeting to discuss further
NO EMERGENCIES > 
July is paid: that will come out of the total money that we are being given as part of 3-month seed money runway
Fiscal sponsorship: Tyler EVLoves is a organization that gives us the meals for food pantry
- 5 yrs relationship
They help out a lot
Johnny knows Tyler for a long time: seems like he’d be down
Initial transfer of funds 5-6% > 585 would lose a couple thousand $$ > $1-2k fee to EVLoves
QUESTION: 4200 x 3$ 
WG $6-7k >> should not be part of runway money
CSA $4k
PANTRY GRANT QUESTIONS: does the fee take away from grant money?? (Sarah says $5000 left has to be spent this month) > should not be part of runway money
Any money raised “for the space” should not be considered as part of the runway money that Matt mentioned
> LOOSE AGREEMENT : NEEDS TO BE HASHED OUT MORE DETAIL ABOUT WHAT MONEY IS INCLUDED AND WHAT ISN’T
Negotiate a separate bank account
QUESTION: fiscal sponsorship:
Autonomedia is a rare situation, subsidiary, WB “owns” autonomedia > we are under their nonprofit umbrella
Tax filing > WB is separate from Autonomedia > separate from farm share
Personal relationships: level of trust with Autonomedia
Makes WB part of a non profit?? 
What is the point of being a subsidiary of another nonprofit in this autonomedia model?? : needing a bank account that was not entirely attached to someone’s personal finances > how to get debit cards > old bank account had very few permissions > “Teen bank account” asking every time you needed to withdraw
So need to suss out what EVLOVES is open to
There are initial set up fees ($100s, not too big setback)
Briar: would like 585 to become an organization with our own financial history, credit history, relationship with financial institution > setting that in motion, having our own bank account, more flexibility moving forward (501 c3)
Does Matt money need to be tax-deductible ? Yes, that is required
RAFT > “you can’t take funds from a charity bank account and move them to non-charity w/o penalty” 
Lease as relates to leadership / structural stuff: LIABILITY
Vanessa and Johnny on “Admin Collective” 
“What’s going in upkeep and programming” 
Insurance policy: haven't looked at it yet: Andy in insurance will look over to make sure it protects us
Lots of children party rentals
Parents sue quickly
Make sure we are protected
Event insurance per event $30-100 can be padded into rental fees
Make sure that rentals are covered by insurance >> Vanessa is corresponding with Andy to make sure rentals are covered
How to create structures that integrate with “admin collective” & “spokes council”
Avoiding "director' and “leader”
Ppl committed to material reproduction of the space > make sure the space is supported so that it can exist
Ash: clear idea they would propose, doesn’t want to edge out other models if other people want to put concrete ideas forward:
Iris: once we have defined roles, we send them out to the working groups, ppl can start to self identify, voting process for roles? (IWW point of reference / experience > delegates voted yearly)
Idea is that roles should change hands
Briar: tow bicycles wheels: admin council & membership council 
Switch wheels in metaphor:
Admin wheel is the rear power wheel keeping the rotation moving, keeping bike moving
General membership is front wheel > steers the bike! > they have empowered admin to power the bike on their behalf
Admin council then meeting on its own to discuss reproduction > they have representative to go to WG to discuss admin stuff > they are the only spoke with veto power > but everyone else has 2 block power
But if there is sa specific concern about FINANCES or LIABILITY > THEY CAN VETO
But it has to be JUSTIFIED
On the other end: general spokes are the ones empowering the admins to be able to 
They can send direction to admin on how they want to handle schedule for now on, but admins are still DOING it
QUESTION: WHAT HAPPENS FOR SPLIT MOMENT DECISION EMERGENCY: (bc proposal meeting are only monthly)
WE don’t have emergency council bc stepping on Matt’s toes
We need to define what we do in emergency situations: for now, that’s up to the admin council
So like: if someone is storing a bunch of furniture in the space, or someone is threatening people > a decision on the fly > that would be in the domain of the spokescouncil
We don’t have a way to make that decision yet
But Johnny thinks he should be able to make that call since he’s on the lease
Admin collective made of various spokes: Liability Collective could enforce rental agreement or something more emergency oriented 
Johnny: concern about a EMERGENCY threat
Natalie tired to mention: discomfort with vagueness of decision making around stuff like this”
We should come up with a list of examples of NON STARTERS to make the lease holders to feel safe
(Electric)
Lease holders are by extension admin collective > we have to trust that there must be immediate action when safety and direct liability are involved 
Things that threatened our fiscal sponsorships
>> COME up with this list of NON starter items
Things that can be brought up at later spokes meetings 
These are very serious decisions daily
There are joyful decisions that can be better > ie grill: one person in the space decided that there should be a grill in the space, but some random person just bought it and brought it > disorganized now
We can always circle back to HOW a decision was made and try to correct when a decision feels bad
natalie: in finance, after the super bowl looking at $400 purchase > 2-six foot sandwiches ? ?? it was this fun thing. >> example of a kind of thing where how do we set a collective rules around those kinds of things : Super Bowl sandwich should not be a unilateral decision
“Liability Spoke” function as EMERGENCY COMMITTEE: SOME group of people that responsible for calling shots, tap or show up to deal with the guy on the couch threatening people 
“Liability committee” should just be lease holders?
Someone with some legal experience should please join that to please give some guidance on that
Johnny: V and J and Maybe D as lease holders kind of permanent 
People on finance: Calvin, Dora, Natalie > kind of permanent, some room for turnover, but MUST have training > “long term’ rather than permanent
Grants 
Programming
Two people: trainable 
NO group should have 2 people
No group should be too big
2-3 ppl per group
Rentals
Programming
Grants
Finance
Liability committee
Ash: picture in notes: wheel metaphor: 
Admin council wheel:
Contains all th things we talked about
Has POINT PERSON COMMITTED TO DOING THAT ROLE SO NOTHING FALLS THROUGH CRACKS
THEN there are support people on those committees, and these people come from SPOKES COUNCIL
So that there is spokes council oversight for the people who are “point person”
eg: fi admin council is made up committees: has bottom liner person > they have oversight from WG people who are representing WGs within that committee
These decisions on a daily basis 
No one is alone, there is always help to make those decisions
Spokes council continues to meet every month: WG’s
People who are coming out of WGs into committees should be self-selecting as a group of people who want to be in rotation of trying out a bunch of different things and roles so they can support the point person in that role for some time, but the self selected group can choose to go through admin roles > general competence goes up > accountability goes up > no one forced into that role
VOTING: for the interim: might be a little slow for these bottom liners > should be ppl who know they have CAPACITY, EXPERIENCE > voting might be a small group of people > we don’t know everybody, someone might feel like they can do a job, but maybe not
Voting can also be popularity context
Point people get a review every 6 months
Wanna keep going?
You’re not suited to the role > mechanism to swap out into a new person who has built up trust and experience
Iris: Comms example vs Locations: it’s depending on who is willing to show the fuck up to do the work
So committees might need to be bigger for some committees vs other depending on needs
MENTORSHIP needs to be a big part of this
There are certain elements of model : ideals for long. Term that might not help (voting on every role right now)
Examples in explainer document about what is “proposal’ spokes council meeting decision vs Admin Collective decision
Unilateral decisions can still come under review at meetings
More openness to do stuff w/o decision making bureaucracy 
But also feedback and mentorship
JohnnY: how does programming : 
Admin council role: hash out points of unity and partnerships
White ness, cis-ness > programming can reflect that: deter others
Ie friend who wanted to do narcan training: how to make the. Space feel more welcoming to different populations
Opening dialogues 
Not just optics, but real training for people to help community
How do we position woodbine to have more to invite broader community to come?
PROGRAMS: SIGNAL THAT PPL INVITED : BUT WITH REAL BENEFITS
Relates to liability, rentals, points of unity
So its part of admin collective
Briar: want us to be explicit about power relationship between admin collective and wg spokes with exception of liability committee
All the rest of spokes of admin collective are empowered by general collective >. That means general collective is shoeing to give this power or REVOKING that
If Geneal collective doesn’t like it, they can add demands 
Ie. Demand more black programming from programming committee
+>>> therefore, programming must be more aligned/ in tune with Liability, Points of Unity, etc !!
Programming can handle the heat of disagreements about “where does programming actually come from?” Not unilateral addressing more broadly
PAIN POINT: Other groups have to get permission
So having a programming committee would help with that clarity
JOHNNY: there’s been an understanding in the past about our points f unity that are written on the website, that new people have not read, that expressly expresses an ideological line > that’s why Matt and Andy do the programming , so that’s how the space has always been
Now that we don’t have that unity
It’s unclear where that’s happening
So there’s a break out group that’s “four random people” > but it’s a clarity of 400 people > so how do you get people on the same page > it’s not something we have membership with 
Developing point s of unity in a break out group: is that really gonna represent “the community”
Reflect on the full history of who has been pushed out
SO WHAT IS A DIFFERENT WAY OF DOING POINTS OF UNITY THAT HONORS HISTORY AND WHY PEOPLE DON’T WANT TO FOLLOW THAT HISTORICALLY : ESP TRANS, FEMME, BLACK FOLKS NOT FEELING WELCOME
J: I think every iteration of WB has had those people
There was an explicit line against identity politics > but tacit cultural stuff > would love to identify it
It’s very different now: J point me to where I could be wrong / points of tension: 
V: ABC NO RIO: document; each wG has a charter!!
So for food pantry : the order something runs, onboarding ,volunteers
Etc so how everything gets run, everyone agrees on it
MISSION STATEMENTS; They can be simple: 
What they are
What they’re not
POINTS OF UNITY wishlist: an autonomous space thats qt bipoc > that feels disingenuous > do not do this
V: love the similar bike pitches > I would feel safest 
With finance spoke collective : Dora Natalie Calvin all involved, 3 is a good number > in your number, C is driver for food pantry and basement, N is CSA, D is kitchen > So that makes me very safe as a lease holder ! So we don’t have to micromanage this > so V feels really good about that > so with the ADMIN COLLECTIVE I WANT TO SEE MORE PEOPLE THAT I TRUST AND WORK WELL WITH
And then we can have new people move in later in like 6 months 2-3 months 
6-month review of bottomliners > rotation of the other people not materially necessary to making the space run smoothly
N: we have a personal relationship: so someone i've met only twice, maybe they also have make charter doc
V: feel safe if I had a not lead role! I can be in liability, comms, I want to know more about fundraising > but FALL > I do NOT have time for this stuff  and can’t take this added responsibility > I don’t want to be seen as taking power
A new pain point: that Directorship I thought was a closed situation > was open if you dm’ed a certain person
NEEDS TO BE CLEAR HOW TO GET INVOLVED IN THE ADMIN COLLECTIVE 
IF YOU WANT TO HELP,  HOW DO YOU GET ON-BOARDED
People with super helpful backgrounds (therapists, legal, etc)
If we don’t vote the point people in, how?
I think for now, who’s been grandfathered  in by DOING THE MOST WORK on the space, on the spokes council > we need to steer ship through the next 6 months!
Fill all those roles with redundancy with those people
Ash: Those of us who’ve been around longer to pick roles and present it to people as an interim thing to get things going : as proof on concept, iv’e been staring this meetings, and people seem cool with it and know it needs to happen and know it’s not a permanent thing at all
So the point people for rentals for example: we have a bottom linter: and then we have supports, that are just parts of the general community that would be showing up at meetings “as representative” by proxy of just showing up 
We WANT PEOPLE IN ADMIN WHO ARE ACTUALLY PART OF THE SPACE / WGs
How to onboard people into that working group: do research if there are conflict around spokes council
Clear onboarding and outboarding > how to get removedBE CLEAR ABOUT ROLES AND EXPECTATIONS AND HARDLINE AND CLEAR TERMS OF MAINTAINING ROLE
IIN A CHARTER: if you don’t fulfill role, you will be asked to leave, it’s ok, you can come back later
I: admin council: back tire: this is going to be a signal chat with pp from different admin groups making decision as they come up
Not every emergency needs everyone's decision
Ie roof leaking: does programming person need to know about roof leak
But locations committee is the one choosing how to stop the leak
Sussing out what needs group decision or doesn’t
So like if there was a $$ high ticket rental, they would be in 
N: idea of coordinators: that there would be communication, publicly, how decision went down, so conflict isn’t siloed
HARD THING ABOUT SIGNAL CHATS: STRIKING balance of transparency, relevancy and clutter and open communication
How to NOT mute the chat forever
Admin council needs to be accountability 
>> talk about signal chat etiquette / expectations
V: if someone were to text group chat / tell me directly, hey the door handle is broken : “liability issues” : my first instinct is to call people and run over with my power drill and the people constantly fixing the space
Change code every 30 days
I would make executive decisions to handle situation > and then make sure all WGs have new access information
>> SO yes that seems like a fine way to act and make a decision
Not ambiguous what the function of a door handle is
I: revisit CHARTERS and individual committees on admin collective: they have been empowered specific to charters
IE location: do repairs, expense those repairs, 
So anything that falls within that charter, they can do without consulting anyone else
So instead of MOU’s can the charters be signed off on in the groups?
So the charters should be defined by the spokes council > they are the ones writing the charters to give these people the power to do these things without consulting us
We have to make this initial decision now 
But ultimately spokes will define that charter and responsibilities
= lots of clarity and conflict awareness> not throwing the book at people with charter
“How something gets done’ doesn’t always jive with people > doesn’t hamstring urgent decision
PGWE; spokes council are making proposals and voting etc, so let’s say they are asking for money and it’s signed off by spokes council, so then from a specific discretionary amount in the budget that the administrative ? What ?? Is there a specific amount that needs to be set aside this month? And then there’s a budget. That can be discretionary
SO admin collective: they figure out what needs to be held separately, save money separately, and then some discretionary budget for WGs to deliberate on for the next 6 months
Very high ceiling for the next 6 months
Overhead is 6$k per month > we are potentially doing lots of asbestos, electrical, other renovations > ideally we want to have $8-9k/mo for the space alone that we don’t want to exceed > finance group will put this together and present it to WGs spokes council > and people would understand that extras expenses couldn’t be out of 585 coffers
So individual WGS could have their own fundraising and volunteers and onboarding > and these could kick back to the general space
ABC no rio > could be a great resource they have welcomed us to learn from them!
The legacy of WGs paying into the space : ambiguous how that works?
Basement ,gym, csa,
How much theyre paying, why
What working groups are expected to give back, make sure it feels fair > that might make sure people don’t make money doing their thing, but they feel comfortable making a fundraiser
It needs to be safe before we can approach finances of basement
Ad hoc handling of finances
Charter document negotiations: does it makes sense for them to give back to the space?? 
Ie dinners: we really need help: if every wg signed up for a dinner, and all funding went back into the space as space money
MOU questionnaire : what could your financial contribution look like?
We are doing good work figuring out potentials: not doing band aids later to fix: a comparison with FF originally started with/o sublease agreement: lots of band aid situation because they couldn't give back to the space
But BAM is giving back to space by design: how do we come up with solutions for groups that don’t have funds to kick back to 585? 
Does one group help fund another group?? CSA making enough money to cover another group without funding available
A: hashing out list of important committees
A: integrate these notes into bigger document for proposal to leader ship and accountability with wheel diagram , charters, info, etc
A: “POINT PEOPLE” bottom-lining w/in admin collective: “how to create expectations for those people”
Participation in WGs
How often in space 
How are they building trust with people
Presence at spokes person meetings so that people know their face etc
So with Johnny as part of food pantry WG : but also wants other be back from a lot of decision making, except necessary to lease liability
Asking J what he wants to have to worry about in terms of decisions
How can we structure terms os that makes sense to other pp in other committees
J interested in rentals > get help as necessary to generate income, not excited about it, will continue with Food Pantry role <3
J as admin, a lot of tings will come up, will require lots of involvement, I haven’t been for the last 2 years for personal and other reasons
J’ my whole thing” I’m kind of stuck , I really care about food pantry, I really hope that there’s more meta conflict resolution between old and new 585 groups, I don’t want to sour people, there are just as many people not around who feel like they are bing pushed out of their space, want to bridge that gap
New people coming back to meetings, excited about coming back > both of those forces
Sympathetic to all the things of grievances, in the context of spokes, lots of meetings with new people: one side gets to really weight in
A and N: meeting with Matt t=with proposal to frame as bridge gap and in good faith, that spaces can relate to each other, that people feel free to go in between the two
It would be nice to have all the collectives talking to each other!! PRIORITIZE META CONFLICT RESOLUTION
POINTS OF UNITY: gap between onset of WB and what’s happening now: breakout group can generate group, build awareness of this: J: all the things that are happening now at WB, what is the thing that unifies all those things right now? Ideological doesn’t feel like the thing right now > there are things obviously outside of that right now (fascism) but being anti-fascist, anti-capitalist are good starting points
Mission of wb : idea that we are trying to experiment with how we engage with the community, and that means sometimes NOT being super ideological, code switching, what might we have in common with this person, how to get out of ideological barriers, make our ideas not seem so wing nutty > worked early in the space with older polish people helping out in the space that broadened our thoughts about community dynamics, broad-minded : what does it mean to be in this neighborhood, as lived experience way; I think some of that has been lost because so many people are younger and hipster whatever but I would like an openness to that would be interesting
I: thinks it’s been some of points of unity already
Oakley shared cooperation Jackson movement document: it relates well to what we are doing : “invitationality” not being the most hardcore ideological position possible, but making people feel welcome in the space, and relating to people 
This is always messy and hard
But it’s worth it etc
Some semantics issues: ie trigger words that could be changed to make language feel better
We have to expand our capacity, hitching to programs that might not align perfectly with us > makes people curious to find out more!
Ie anti amazon event brought in a lot of right wingers
>> so hopefully meta conflict resolution will help clarify so what we all want because so much we overlap on
Points f unity expands beyond break out groups
Does not represent all people 
No finality to it
Just stuff to work from > and make those proposals. > open to the public that can then be amended
Broader discussion where people revisit old wb ethos > thinking broadly! Old WB-heads so that it’s not obviously an anticapitalist space > we shouldn’t all be the same
Finding the spirit! Then draft the letter, with that in mind
Briar: timeline: we come to a place with a foundational document: we are ready to start organizing 585 with our various spokes: by the end of the JUNE > a thing we are able to start operating with > we are going to write and vote on the proposals on MONDAY 6/23 and have something solid to present > because there will still be a process of transition > everything can be provisional: making sure we can work together at this point, hash out later, high emotions now, later details 
J: what’s going where: I think it’s self evident: double things are being split: one set of projections for each space, PA system one set for each space, furniture staying, library going, chairs in negotiation; call booths?? Height could be a limiting factor. 
CLEANING PROPOSALS
Arrangement with the landlord: we pay Marciela for monthly cleaning and trash maintenance; full cleaning of the space doesn’t happen enough; confusion; 
PROPOSE: WE START A DOCUMENT CLARIFYING WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT: NOTES ARE DISCUSSION ,BUT WE NEED CLEAR DOCUMENT FOR TOMORROW’S MEETING: INCLUDE TWO WHEELED BIKE WITH CAVEATS, CHARTER, EMERGENCY IDEAS >> REFERENCE DOCUMENT WE CAN START AND STUFF > ASH WILL MAKE THIS DOCUMENT
Last items / follow up discussions:
Key conversation will come up: codes etc what we have now isn’t working: You don’t even have to put digits in the right order!!!!
Points of unity 
Reference document
Figure out what admin council is composed of: and draft the initial charters for them (doesn’t have to happen by Monday)
We need the people in those groups to help draft those charters
Would individual WGS draft their charters?
“Given the now emergency of moving forward, WGS would draft their charters, admins would draft their charters, but moving forward all decisions about those charters would be subject to spokes councils” 
Too many people out of town right now to get it down now
Introduce idea of charter document to people on Monday
Then have to make this idea
What if other people don’t even like this idea
This should take time > the contingency of having just heard of it > too spontaneous
Every WG is still functioning within the space: so good opportunity as first spokes meting to engage the individual spokes to start thinking about what they do, list, and making charter
Admin charter vs WG charter
Admin charter: not for month of July is we just do our best for now?
But get these charters in by AUGUST?? Gives us month for people to return and communications 
July is almost like time of proof of concept, drafting and input!! 
B: once they are drafted by Admin committees, then they are approved in our second big spokes council meeting (august)
N: this rhythm of meetings will continue into July: it won’t be totally asynchronous
A: we need to figure out COMMITTEES and WHO are bottom liners
How is that going to happennnnnnnn
Bottom liner for only one thing at a time per person
Rentals: Johnny
Liability: Johnny & Vanessa: figuring out if use of space is a problem >> add someone with legal experience > “legal / liability spoke” but just need to get things moving first
Conflict Support: Ash ?  (is conflict resolution part of Admin?? It seems like a third thing, the middle of the wheels, how to build harmonious wheel; it’s not a daily operations thing or a program > it’s a secret third thing) but also it is for reproduction of the space > so it IS admin; and USEFUL in certain emergencies  > needs to be knowledgeable ambiently of WGs too > empowerment > we are empowering this committee to be empowered to deal with this conflict > Conflict Resolution is in Third Space until we determine where it lives permanently? Why not have it in the admin council? Is it semantics? Or is going to suck so much already? So idon’t want to have think about this > but you don’t have to> that’s why it’s a different spoke > we need a MODe in which we talk to one another!! > if there is a frame work for how we solve problems > really necessary to NOT poison the space. It is nice to have a vibe check situation ! So if the Admin chats>> the conflict support bottom liner could be in that chat, but isn’t doing anything > keeping an eye on things bubbling up > keeping an eye on the vibe of the room > and fish bowl concept > conflict support is at its core neutral for the argument, but creating container for the space and resources on how to talk to one another > how to have a group of people develop a better culture of actually resolving conflict together; we have to create a culture where it’s safe and ok to fail ! (As long as you pay the rent) but that’s the point of the bottom linters in all these committees > so conflict support isn’t going to inhibit people from paying the rent; 
Johnny: Programming I don’t know what that means yet, there’s stuff I’d like to program but idk if I want to be on the committee 
Vanessa; bottomline fundraiser (or be support if not bottom line, with Natalie; support for rentals programming)
Iris: point person for Locations!
Natalie: wants to be on finance, not point person; I do book keeping for my work, but I have no data analysis skills, just data entry!!! And Calvin and Dora might be better-suited point person so ?? (Its covered but not point personnel)
Comms (instagram etc) / Programming:
Grants: 
Spokes Council Planning: what does the continued role look like? (Admin or Spoke or Secret Third Thing Pedal)
Do research on other collectives on interesting structures
The glue that keeps SC functioning well
They could write a proposal for it
SCP explainer document : a body of people as a reference to digest what’s working / not working > includes policy of how to be onboarded onto this
What if SCP elects a PP to be a go-between between the two wheels ?? Or it’s right in the admin committee, making sure communication goes from Admin to Spokes General?
The support of each committee ?? 
When WG meet, should there be a delegate fro admin in each WG?? Or experiment with less cumbersome structure ? Make sure soloing doesn’t happen
Admin report backs
More of advisory group, not POWER group
SPC tries to find a way to get things to work !! 
Should have a voice at the Council so that it could potentially undermine the entire spokes model : able to represent the Spokes Council to itself > to maintain things as more transparent, more collective
MANAGING MEETINGS, SYNTHESIZING NOTES, it is an admin/WG combo > spiritually better as a WG
Synthesizing information from spokes council: where are people going to get this information on proposals ? What the capacities are? What’s reasonable to ask for in a proposal? So then they make up this porpsla that sounds reasonable but there needs to be something other than just a big veto / block > in order to draft a good proposal, you should be reaching out to the teams involved and would help INFORM if that’s a good proposal or not > friendly amendments could also help proposal along > due diligence > triage of a proposal that is put on the board to get them on the agenda > helps prioritize > something may never make it to the agenda at all if its not meaningful to general community > so admin would have a financial report for each spokes council meeting? Budges planned ahead oof time and fairly transparent > where team says what’s overhead, what’s buffer, what’s deficit, what’s needed, and if there’s any discretionary budget for Spokes council to proposal usages for 
Every spokes person meeting will have report back from ADMIN so they are aware of what is required to run the space
Liability / Legal: Bureaucracy: dealing with the State, other entities, filing our taxes, incorporating 
Separate legal from liability: Liability is lease ; legal might be separate issues/ideas
Having a neutral party CPA that actually has that education
One of our friends is a CPA that does specifically like working for these kinds of groups
Legal: we come only when needed to Finance > consultant role of point person that doesn’t have to meet all the time
“Volunteer lawyers for the arts” do we fall under that purview?
Tech Admin Spoke: managing Web etc

06-23-2025 6:30-9 pm @ MayDay Space
Spokescouncil Meeting - Date: 06-23-2025
Spokescouncil Strategy Meeting 3 (aka what to do about the future of the space)
Agenda
Roles (5 min)
Facilitator (Ash + Katelyn)
Timer (Dora)
Stack (Caroline)
Note taker (paul)
Whiteboarder (none)
Names/Pronouns (5 min)
Updates from Johnny about Lease + Short Q/A (10 min)
Document Template walkthrough (5 min)
Proposal section breakout groups (5 min)
Proposal writing time! (30 min)
Commitment to Collective Stewardship of the 585 Space
blank template
Break (5 min)
Proposals presentations (50 min)
we go section by section together
Discussion
Questions
Friendly Ammendments
Review
Vote at the end
Follow up plan/action items (10 min)
timeline and plan to present proposal to Matt
Detailed Meeting Notes
Intro & agenda review
Updates from johnny
dino wants matt to stay on lease and have matt indemnify himself
seems ok with adding vanessa to the lease
said no to LLC being on the lease
not open to reassignment of lease yet. but maybe at some point in the future
"what does indemnification mean?" there will be a document that says matt will have no further involvement with the space & will not contact the landlord directly. if there's a lawsuit against us matt will be party to that lawsuit but then be able to sue us separately
breakout groups
groups are working on editing sections of this transition doc to be presented to the directorship
group red
transitional leadership
governance
conflict / point of unity
group green
statement of intent
timeline
summary / action items
group purple
landlords
finance & fiscal sponsorship
point of clarification: at the last meeting it was decided that we would continue to operate at 585 woodward as an organization independant from Woodbine.
Reviewing the document
Transitional governance
We decided this section was confusing and dropped it. wasn't clear the difference between emergency counsel and the admin/spokes groups.
Agreements w/ landlord
seems like Dino will never be open to an LLC taking over the lease
what does "responsibility" mean? it means legal liability.
Basement
stuff about asbestos fundung is confusing, drop it.
kitchen
landlord want to change the insurance policy wrt the kitchen but it's not clear why
governance model
are these structures temporary or not?
are the individual admins reviewed every 6 months or is the entire admin structure going to be reviewed in 6 months?
clarification that each admin committes are committees-- groups of people, but have a point person that rotates every 6 months.
finance & fiscal sponsorship
we just found out that july rent is part of the 3 month of runway for 585
Next Action Items
Async collaboration on proivisonal 585 transition plan doc
next action items from the doc:
Mid July?
Schedule of meetings with current directorship for transition
By July 31, 2025:
Complete basement cleaning and fire compliance
Clarify financial structures and fiscal sponsor partnership
Draft initial charters for all Admin Committees
Begin onboarding process for Admin and Spokescouncil participants
By August 2025:
Ratify first round of charters
Conduct full operational dry-run of new governance structure

06-18-2025 7-9 pm at MayDay Space
Spokescouncil Meeting - Date: 06-18-2025
Spokescouncil Strategy Meeting 2 (aka what to do about the future of the space)
Agenda 
Names/Pronouns (5 min)
Roles (5 min)
Facilitator (Ash + Dora?)
Timer 
Stack
Whiteboarder
Review of "Options" (5 min)
Review of Monday meeting (10 min)
Brief Updates and Open Questions (10 min)
Breakout group research huddle (35 min)
Break (5 min)
Breakout group reportbacks (15 min)
Plan for Monday June 23 Meeting + Proposal Teams (10 min)
Action Items + Bottomliners (5 min)
Meeting Highlights
Roles (5 min)
Facilitator (Ash + Dora)
Timer : LP
Stack: Shahrazad
Whiteboarder: Iris
Notes: Rachel
Review of "Options" (5 min)
Option 1: “Lease Takeover” : “Matt / Woodbine” moves to new space Ridgewood Democratic Club; 585 Working Groups becomes its own entity REMAIN at 585 by renegotiating lease w landlord w 3-mo seed money (rent)
Option 2: (Matt & Maria are definitely out) current Co-Directors are OUT; what “we”[person speaking] would rather look to do, is stay on lease and work with spokes council as a buffer from directorship; everything stays as is (expanded Directorship roles - retry it)
Option 3: Matt goes to RDC; Other working groups have to find their own spaces if they don’t want to take over 585; seed money would go to this unknown 3rd space. (Budget doesn’t feel available for that?)
Doesn’t sound like any 3rd spaces are pulling through 
We have a breakout group looking into 3rd spaces
QUESTION: do “WB” groups WANT to go? (Reading groups, screenings) 
The “brand” of WB is transferring to RDC;
Review of Monday meeting (10 min) (Dora)
Reviewed options 1,2,3
Ideated pros and cons of options
Talked about moving parts, what collaborations might be, big questions about funding streams, 
Created 5 breakout groups:
Fundraising & Collaborations w other orgs
Potential alternative spaces
Legal support (Incorporation)
Leadership accountability models & Leaseholder Relationships 
Points of Unity
A document was created as potential statement of intent to be used for any of the options for us to review and go through
“This is the plan, and this is the timeline” type document
Pulse check at the end of the meeting: MOST people interested in Option 1. 
Brief Updates and Open Questions (10 min)
“I want to clarify: Option 2 now sounds a lot like Option 1,?”
Johnny: under all scenarios, Matt is leaving lease or self-indemnifying
WE DON’T KNOW IF LANDLORD WILL ALLOW ENTIRELY NEW SET OF LEASEHOLDERS
3 new leaseholders entirely (seemed skeptical)
Matt indemnify and keeping John & Duncan on the Lease
Matt indemnifying himself and finding a replacement on lease
Liability issues are still a major concern 
Is option 1 now a complete new lease take over??
Option 2 looks different now 
UPDATE: option 2 is shifting ?
UPDATE: Johnny talking to landlord on Saturday that will hopefully clarify 
QUESTION: would it help our thinking if we throw away options that aren’t working anymore: the critical decision is do we want to talk to landlord about transitioning lease? 
Johnny clarifying: Matt is indemnifying/leaving no matter what, so we will have to talk to the landlord no matter what
QUESTION: WHAT IS THE MINIMAL VIABLE DECISION THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE BY WHEN
RE-ASKING because of getting different answers
What Matt asking for is ppl to come together w statement of intent to keep running the space and how it’s going to happen 
END OF JUNE
We have a document template for that
QUESTION: have there been people who would be interested in joining the lease as third person? (Good income/credit etc folks??)
question: what are the requirements for lease?
Johnny: during COVID, very loose .. we have rapport 
Johnny; thorough background and credit checks
Three-person lease
A couple folks have approached Ash about that directly saying they would be on the lease as good candidates
No one has committed to Johnny about it specifically
QUESTION: is the 9-yr lease deal that Matt negotiated going to be compromised by his self-recusal?
Finding out on Saturday …. Maybe
QUESTION: IF DINO THE LANDLORD WOULD renegotiate leases w/ new lease holders raise rent?
MAYBE
QUESTION: would us [585] incorporating change landlord’s calculus at all? LLC
I don’t think so? I think he cares about getting money and trusting lease holders > but Dino wants a point person to be Johnny or Matt
QUESTION: DO we have a copy of the lease?
Johnny has it on his computer 
QUESTION: Do we have feels on what groups would want to leave / stay? 
How have those conversations been happening?
No one here to answer that
Stay: Gym, pantry, dinner crew, (food fight is looking for new space / open to staying) (the most infrastructure-entrenched groups)
RDC does not intend to accommodate food distro / dinner
leave: ?? Research group? Reading group? 
QUESTION: HOW concretely do they feel / who is making that decision for those groups
question: what are the essential roles in the space/duties / responsibilities — who is interested doing them?
Finance, legal, rentals, co-working management, maintenance, lease, operations, lease relations, fundraising, programming, calendar, repairs
QUESTION: a lot of income from co-working: at what point in time do we address those people specifically ($1600/mo)
QUESTION: Co-working people is a collection with “With Friends” — during this transition, when are these people alerted and when do they make this decision? Clarify when they make that decision
Def have to recruit new people for co-working at 585 bc co-working will happen at RDC
The agreement we talked to Matt about, the first 3 months would split income btw 2 spaces from Patreon and WithFriends > announcing changes
QUESTION: to what extent the various working groups have been informed what might happen?
  first announcement would be through listServ July 1 
Matt sent out a message in “Coordinators” chat with sporadic attention, no idea how well those were read
People on Saturday were informed and most people know now
QUESTION: reiterate that whatever changes are made that people in the Patreon need to be informed beforehand — if we do anything w/o telling them is serious defrauding issue:
We will have to talk to Matt about it (Andrew volunteering to do so)
Perhaps financing group can help strategize around that 
Legal group did research into that (see below)
Breakout group research huddle (35 min)
Financing funding & Partnership: funding streams & partnerships, 
Legal: Incorporation, patreon carry over; 
Points Of Unity: making a board unifying mission statement to help us come together
Leadership and Accountability & Leaseholder relationships: dreaming up how these leadership roles that maintain the space : who to make sure spokes coucnil has real power and how does it integrate w other leadership roles (leaseholders)
Alt Spaces: we don’t need to meet? BUT one benefit could be just to see what’s out there so we have a more empowered approach ? Might just be jumping the gun; we’ve been throwing around links but we don’t need to discuss in person so much
LEADERSHIP AND ACCOUNTABILITY group notes: Relationship btw spokes council and leadership roles
Note: Property taxes for 585 lease : $8000/yr in taxes: Department of Finances
Question: Is landlord paying for major repairs ??
 discuss pain points from the past to help inform going forward: WHAT HASN’T BEEN WORKING (not blame person but like more generally what dynamics don’t work > with intent to address/avoid a structural concern)
- UNCLEAR overlap / delineation between leadership roles vs responsibility roles : ie busted things : ppl who are in roles of leadership vs roles of responsibility for pragmatic needs
- daily needs need to delineated more clearly
S liked things with “JOY” in reference to a shared example / document: make people WANT to come and do the work because they want to
Avoid “Social capital” of people skills: creates weird power dynamic 
Johnny: clarifying what he means by “leadership”: “to me it is I don’t have time to do that much, I don’t have interest in running the space, the issues to leadership to me are things in category of finance, building capacity and legal liability, but I’m fine with everything else litigated by wg’s through spokes council 
“So I think there should be a team that I am a part of that can make those decisions” 
Oftentimes, the space has changed a lot, usually there is one person who makes decision all time time > rotating roles 2-3 people in roles/realms with open communication where everyone knows what happens
Monthly meetings: “I think it’d be cool if there would be a point where anyone could ask any question” 
Have something online? People show up confused irl > lots of disparate mailing lists and signal groups
Then there’s an agenda
But all finances and agenda should all be public and open and transparent
But every meeting should have a public-contribution option / portion
(Pain point is LOW TRANSPARENCY: HARD TO PLUG IN)
Anyone being able to force others out by denying access codes
TRUST is a big issue: sporadic presence of people in the space
Roles that have been not very present, because they have key influence over things but haven’t been around
Directors not known by people > who are you , why are you telling me to do this?? 
DOOR CODES: Bloomington people change the code once/month
STRUCTURE: A LOT OF THESE things have overlapping themes of lack of transparency, in building structures there are a lot of tings that are common to organizing: busy, come and go, transience, we can’t control peoples lives and behaviors, but important to create roles and responsibilities with that keep turn over in mind, so even when a leader has to leave ; and that we are going. To be bad at it for a long time and it’s going to be hard
Good idea for how to address that
Accountability: Doesn’t mater how people get into role, but GENERAL MEMBERSHIP NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO VETO / PULL BACK leaders
V: been on a bunch of WB things since 2016, problems with lack of accountability
Things we would like to see:
Ie rentals could be a clear group of people that can do it together
All leadership roles should have accountability and 
Something that would help with that: rewriting of lease if that happens; we really should consider being an LLC!! It’s not a single person: 
Liability and decision making: a requirement for J is people in leadership who will be responsible about finances and liability but at the same time we want to make decision collectively: so whoever those leadership ppl are > they have veto power SPECIFICALLY FOR finances and liability and only that and they must be able to defend that decision
Point person. / vs leadership? 
Rhizome collective Austin TX 
Omni commons Oakland CA
Johnny: there is an assumption that WB is an anarchist space, but it never has been, and there is a lot of frustration about that , and it feels like no one is listening to the people who were here first
Culture is alive and changing
Part of legacy and DNA is there and can’t be kept static
Response: there are a lot of different people here, don’t think it’s specially a capital-A anarchist thing
A general feeling specifically when dealing with Matt > kept pointing to idea documents  > but we’ve grown a lot and changed a lot and have diverse members 
Johnny: Thing have changed, wb has grown; doesn’t want culture of Anarchism to push out all other ideas/groups; that there is a vibe; and so I have a lot of apprehension
The claimed politics vs the nuts and bolts > if nothing is designated in a clear manner, then there will be a structure that is haphazard 
We can’t necessarily vote on how money gets used because not everyone has context for that????? 
So what about a financial working group?
Like if you let everyone in on the finances, it would be very dysfunctional to just hand those decision over to the spokes council
So we want to create a clear structure so it’s NOT haphazard
J: concerns about administrative things: we wield power over everyone, but also you need to demonstrate investment in the space > demonstrate that you’re appropriate for the role
We are not talking about an anarchist structure, instead as democratic; flattening the structure
J: feels huge worry about liability with types of events and finances that are happening at the space!!!! 
The common denominator is that Matt is not involved: “we want to buy a pinball machine” example > finance group that can actual field thoughtful proposals
That would bring so much joy
How do both wheels overlap, share joy
Point person mentorship
Spokes council 
Integration of the two wheel groups 
Point person and spokes people will be doing the work together
Impeaching and recalling: that is important to feel like there is power in the people creating the space together
Conflict support happening continuously
Hopefully it doesn’t get to a point of impeachment, but that there will be more conversations about it before it becomes this monster
“Hey I’m liability person and I’m stressed out threatened etc” the conflict working group is here to help with that so that people feel safe and understood
Can we avoid: give people the context so they can make the decision
Ie we can let people know what’s in the bank account because then we can plug them into the paths / context to show them HOW they can get those things > here’s how !! (Or why that doesn’t work)
So it’s about being prepared for problems and dealing with problems rather than avoiding them!!!
Conflict-averse people : nothing ever gets done!! (Festering, rot etc)
Rotating roles: appropriate for some things and not others (Rentals — it really is just about who is able to do it, has those relationship, has the time > becomes an efficiency issue; Rentals: a lot of liability on leaseholders as well. > delineation between responsibility vs leadership >> it has to be worked out with CLARITY
Talking about role rotation with another long time organizer : whatever role rotation, there should be a clear structure with MENTORSHIP and FEEDBACK and knowing that people will make mistakes
There are a ton of collectively run spaces where no single person has that role and collective can be responsible and be open to this working
V: my dream and vision for the space from talking to lots and lots of people and meetings, there are the spokes (back wheel is drive wheel, working groups) that drive the drive chain and grow the space, there’s the front wheel (admin) > the bike is the space > full transparency between two wheels that is making the whole bike work
People complain about stuff all the time: not an excuse to hoard knowledge : conflict averse behavior: 
WE ARE AT TIME: huge conversation: we will be meeting Thursday or Sunday or both > obviously not a conversation that’s done
THANK YOU JOHNNY FOR BEING HERE! And hearing all these thoughts and conversations; 
Would we have to clear rentals with the spokes council? NO 
But maybe there’s a rental committee very educated on what rentals are and rental liabilities > Johnny would be able to see what the rentals are too > super concerned about NOT IMPEDING RENTALS BECAUSE OF INCOME STREAMS!!!!!
J: talk about worry about finances briefly: at best, WE ARE LOSING AT LEAST 1/2 OF OUR INCOME FOR THE SPACE!!! 
Leaseholder stuff: mostly dependent on SATURDAY discussion
Break (5 min)
Breakout group reportbacks (15 min)
WAIT: why am I talking:
LEGAL: 
- PATREON & With Friends: their terms of service require that that change of services provided be announced
- NYS law: we do have to report to our donors that we are changing the structure of the organizing;
Incorporating: LLC (hard wired individuals), several other entity types, different from non-profit (directors are responsible to and can be changed), different from 510(c)3 would have a manager/president >> so that no individual has to take on scary liability and bank account could be for the organization 
LLC makes it much harder on grants!!!
501c3 MIGHT BE BETTER
585 SPACE: during COVID : it took A LOT of legwork t find options: we could reuse this model
= a lot of benefits to incorporating
Can we bring this up with Dino on Saturday? J will ask him but doesn’t know; Dino wants a point person for sure. In his mind as someone to blame for anything going wrong. 
NEED A FISCAL SPONSOR: this will be further down the line >> LLC cannot do tax-deductible sponsors
FINANCE/FUNDRAISING:
Showed us comparison with others space that matters is taking on
How splitting half btw 585 and RDC ? Who gets to decide?
Consider more overhead costs!! How that money that people have continuously put into 585 should be split
Because RDC rent is going to be half of what 585 is
So having a community of spaces, being realistic about what things actually cost
Especially with no reading group on Sundays 
Dora shared really great breakdowns of finances over the last year in 2-6 month chunks
Mayday, Ridgewood Tenants Union
Programing for things that are leaving, opens up spaces that are now available: Sunday time slot is a big one (pop-ups : money fundraisers, bake sales, smaller scale do seem to add up, vending market things) 
POINTS OF UNITY: we reviewed existing work from last meeting, discussed two-pronged approach oof what we believe, tenants and what the core parts are :
Whether and how to include more about WHO the space is for / who we trying to reach
Ways to overcome the gatekeeping / confusing about legibility and participation
ALT SPACES: Libby put together a report that he will share to a general chat; we CAN get a comparable space price, but much smaller
Leadership / accountability:
Pain-points: accountability & transparency
Liability 
Ideas for how to integrate spokes person model with leaders 
Make sure admin is integrated with working groups / point persons and spokes persons all integrated 
Committees formed around some groups 
Point person mentoring new people
Same person stays the same for a while 
Concerns about finances and sharing info about it > transparency
We have a lot still to go, meeting Thursday and/or Sunday 
QUESTION: what is the point of third space / option 3: the vast majority of people want to stay with 585, have a collective body that pairs with leadership; 
- 3rd space is useful to understand value of staying at 585 
Plan for Monday June 23 Meeting + Proposal Teams (10 min)
- write proposals prior to meeting to finalize one by the end of the meeting
Beginning of MONDAY meeting: any report backs from all the groups who do meet in the interim, if anything new comes up, new info from landlord Dino on Saturday; 
Then do breakout groups depending on size for TO WRITE 2-3 proposals for what we should present to Matt —  use that document from K as a template to adjust / add/ phrase based on their ideas
SECOND HALF OF MEETING: VOTING ON PROPOSALS and editing
Other tweaking asynchronously and with a set deadline later, but before 30th
Incorporation stuff: we just need to show an intent by 30th rather than actually have to have it incorporated
QUESTION: do we have any lawyer friends w wb and contract law that we could get help from?
Some people reaching out, haven’t heard back
Briar’s aunt is a tenant lawyer, but “she’s weird”
Andrew can ask their sister lawyer “she’s cool I guess”
Libby has contract lawyer friend > they want a specific set of questions usually > we ned to be more coherent before we approach them
Another person sorry I forgot name was realty paralegal and can ask friends
=====>> GROUP IN WITH LEGAL TEAM HUDDLE
The only thing we need by July 1 is information pertaining to the lease: everything else is a more flexible time line : it’s not the end of the world to not have details hashed out by July 1: is good context
We can do as much as we can with the time slated 
Details can change over time
Can we get intel from Saturday landlord meeting ASAP? In the chats
J will reach out to someone to share after Saturday LL meeting
Proposals: visions for the future / charter documents: what are the big plans for the future > proposal for next Monday is more general structure who will take over the lease ?? ? we don’t need every little piece right now 
YES.
Why would Dino have any incentive to cooperate? 
J: there is a world where Dino forces M to stay and there’s a crash and burn option….
Is Dino open to Matt leaving the lease?  
Action Items + Bottomliners (5 min)
PLEASE DONATE TO MAYDAY FOR BOTH MEETINGS: Venmo @mayday-space
Meet with your breakout groups
Johnny meeting with Dino LL Saturday . 
Please look at the proposal document! Wants edits to it. 
Dora posted financial breakdown in the emergency chat > ask Dora or Natalie if questions 

06-16-2025,  7-9 pm at May Day Space
Spokescouncil Meeting - Date: 06-16-2025
Spokescouncil Strategy Meeting 1 (aka what to do about the future of the space)
Agenda
Introductions: name, pronouns (5 min)
Volunteer for roles (5 min)
Facilitator (ash)
timer (briar)
note taker 
whiteboarder
stack  
Refresher on meeting gestures and protocols: jazz hands, stack, "WAIT" (5 min)
Review of the "options" and Open container for processing the news together: fears, hopes (20 min)
Updates (5 min)
landlord updates from johnny (relayed by ash)
fundraising stream updates
Whiteboard session to ideate (30 min)
pros and cons of the options 
this lease, dino and problems with the infrastructure 
possible collaborations 
fundraising streams 
how spokescouncil can work with "leadership" roles to create real accountability: committees, role rotations, etc
Break (5 min)
Task Team formation, volunteer groups (20 min)
gauge who is interested in what sort of labor and then form teams around them
alternative spaces research
legal support: commercial, lease
how to deal with patreon funds
possible collaborations 
finance breakdown + fundraising
how spokescouncil can work with "leadership" roles to create real accountability
committees, role rotations, etc
lease holders
lease research: do we take on as individuals or a corporation?
any others?
Katelyn's document + q/a (10 min) 
Commitment to Collective Stewardship of the 585 Space
ash's notes on the doc:
obviously we need to think about the timelines and what makes sense but very happy you have added have more breathing room in this proposed timeline
General Assembly (GA) and spokescouncil meetings are different in nature in some definitions. we would want to finesse that. we've never use GA in our spokes explainer but that doesn't mean we can't, we just need to get our terms straight. i personally see GA's as different than spokes meetings. we can talk more about this later.
the governance model may also need to include some form of expanded "leadership" body in tandem with spokescouncil to move forward with johnny to stay on the lease. we will discuss this more in the  meeting.
one of the "transition phases" should specify a transition of funds and funding streams:
the communication to patreon donors (esp coworkers) and other donor streams about the new schism (apparently its illegal not to do that) with links to our new patreon and time for them to move over onto our own platform.
also a timeline for receiving seed runaway funding, and any other funds promised to the upkeep and improvement of 585 (like the stove, asbestos, etc)
how to reroute CSA funds, gym funds, basement donations
we should also consult a lawyer about this agreement and get feedback and ask what sort of accountability this entails for us and matt. also whether we should have a notary or not
 
Special signal chat for these meetings and updates? (5 min)
Action Item Roundup + bottomliners (10 min)
Meeting Highlights
Space 585 Spokescouncil Meeting \#2 Notes Spokescouncil Strategy Meeting 1: What to do about the Future of the Space
Facilitator- Ash
Time Keeper- Briar
Stack- Andrew
Notetaker- Shea
Whiteboard maven - Nina
Review of Options
1- Lease takeover of Space 585 by a new group. Woodbine entity moves to a new space. Working groups remaining at Space 585 would collaborate with lease holders to form democratically run space. ~3 mos rent available to working groups to fund the space during the transition.
2- Current leaseholders remain on the lease, directorship is expanded. Things remain largely the same.
3- Woodbine retains control of Space 585, working groups receive seed money (~3 mos rent) to move mutual aid/ working groups operations to a new space.
Feelings Processing
The group expressed excitement over the opportunity to form a democratically run space, as well as conviction that the mutual aid and community building are vital to the neighborhood. We acknowledged how much those in the 585 working groups care about the space and the community, and how important food pantry and Sunday dinners are to the well-being of many who receive these services.
Many in the group are anxious as well, due to the short timeline, vagueness of the agreement, and lack of cohesion around the vision for the new space/ management structure. Some wondered whether the funds allocated to space repairs and management (electricity etc) would still be available in the event of a split. - A clarification was given that the end of June deadline is for a statement of intent, and that submitting the Collective Stewardship Commitment prepared by Katelyn and signed by the group to the leaseholders would fulfill this deadline.
Update from Johnny- LL is ok with Johnny and Hunter remaining on the lease without Matt. LL is wary of adding new names to the lease, and any new names added can expect a full background and credit check before being added.
Fundraising Update:
CSA- Natalie: it is not a certainty that CSA will remain operating out of Space 585. CSA contributes ~$16k/ yr to the space, which while helpful, “wouldn’t save the space.” That being said, CSA has logistical needs to consider that are already being met by the 585 Space.
Patreon- Dora: If the planning group decides to take control of the 585 lease, Patreon funds for 3 mos would be split between Space 585 and the new Woodbine space. Donors would be informed of the split and a new Patreon formed for Space 585. Once the new Patreon is running, donors would be able to choose which space receives their donations. Other current revenue streams: gym, pantry grants, co-working.
Whiteboard Time- Pros and Cons Options 1-3
Option 1
Con: our group has skills that are underdeveloped in this area, and historically there is a low level of engagement by stakeholders- are there enough of us willing to take this on?
We will need to restructure our relationships with each other and the space.
Pro: Immediate pursuit of the deadline and high levels of group interest indicate this is the most favorable option- group consensus.
Pro: gym, food pantry, and CSA are already well entrenched and operating out of 585. They may not have the desire or capability to relocate.
Pro: we can always revisit option 3 (starting new space) either as we grow or as challenges arise at 585.
Option 2
Q: Is there a role for the spokescouncil here?
A: Possibly, but seems to hinge on which of the current leaseholders remains on the lease and how open they would be to collaborating with the spokescouncil.
Pro: If we are unable to reach group consensus around Options 1 or 3, we can always revisit in the future.
Con: runway funds are most likely not indefinitely available
Con: Many comrades who formerly worked in mutual aid groups have stepped away from Woodbine due to conflict arising from the current structure. They may return if we reach consensus on Option 1 or 3, but will not be interested in Option 2. Several in the working group agreed with this statement and expressed similar feelings.
Option 3
Pro: Funding for new space could open new opportunities for the group.
Con: This is the least clear path forward.
Brainstorm
Q: What do we want to do?
Q: What structure do we need to create to accomplish this?
Briar- allows us to have a voice. There are few democratically run spaces in NYC. Learning these processes will enable us to make more democratic decisions in this group and in our wider communities.
Andrew- the mutual aid and working groups are all community focused, that’s what brings us together.
Usman- our goal should be to center the community
Lippy- create paths to social and communal skills building, development of principles of operation in a shared space
Nina- prompted the group to define “community” for ourselves- which community? Social, geographical, ideological? Who are we centering?
Possible Collaborations
Mayday needs permanent home
Food fight
Soccer team
Ridgewood tenants union
Spokescouncil Creating Accountability w Directorship
Concern: What if a proposal from the Spokecouncil puts the leaseholder in a position where they’re exposed to undue personal risk?
Structure should take risk into account, but in order to do this we need clarity into what the specific liability concerns are. We need to flesh this out and build a firm framework to address these areas.
Suggestion: Form committees around specific tasks ie fundraising, finance, events. Committees should come from the spokescouncil and are beholden to spokescouncil. Allows us to disperse responsibilities among more individuals, lightening the workload.
Assertion: Directorship/ leaseholders should be involved in the actual running of the space. Come to pantry and events occasionally.
Counter point to concern: current directorship has a history of not immediately addressing safety issues when they arise, which creates tangible liability issues. So why is the directorship worried about amorphous future liability problems?
Many in the group expressed a desire to hear from Matt directly or have him attend a spokescouncil meeting.
Break out into Groups
Alternative Spaces
Legal Support
Patreon
Collaborations
Leadership Accountability
Leaseholders + Relationship
Incorporation?
Groups created Signal chats to communicate and collaborate between meetings
Katelyn presents Stewardship doc- meant to be a statement of intent. Group should feel free to review and revise as needed.
Andy reiterated that the only option with a deadline attached to it is Option 1, Stewardship doc with group signatures meets the requirement of the deadline.
Ash clarified that MOLU are representatives onboarded to a Signal chat who coordinate the spaces everyday operations.
Group voted to start the 585 Emergency Council signal chat.
Group voted to have another Spokescouncil Meeting 6/23 @ 7p location TBD.
Action Items
Groups work on your respective research projects.
Need volunteers for 6/23 meeting facilitator, time keeper, stack, and note taker.